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Discussion : Bail for child porn accused
Discussion is closed !1-15 > 16-30> Total 20 comments
2005-02-07 03:51:23 - anti-iconomach
Brenda, you have got it all wrong. Please read it again, and think about it. To help you understand I probably should have placed my opinion in a wider context. I often forget that many people don't comprehend much beyond the caveman basics of "Pedo bad hurt girl: Me hurt pedo."
The reason I don't give my real name is because I "don't have the balls" to stand up against an army of mindless pedophobic psychopaths. Just like you, they wouldn't listen to a word I say, before they take the law into their own hands, proud to be "Normal People". Just like Nazis, just like racists, just like homophobes, just like sexists, just like religious funda-mentalists of all denominations. They would believe that they are safeguarding the future of their children, not realizing that they are the same as what they opppose, the same hate, the same violence, the same disrespect for life, the same lack of thought and understanding. Perhaps they could explain to me the difference between a person who hurts an adult and a person who hurts a child, because I can't see any difference.
Maybe you are a white-supremacist or a gay-basher as well as a pedophobe. Maybe you have bigger balls than me. That doesn't make you right. I will be happy to listen to any intelligent argument you make, but not playground insults.
You can conclude whatever you like about me, but you are embarrassing yourself if you do not listen to the words I actually say: exactly where did I say that I enjoy "the suffering and humilation of victims too small to fight back"?
Where did I say that it was "challenging" to "overpower and rape a little girl"?
You are talking about me, but you are accusing me of things I do not agree with: you are reflecting the crudest pedophobic steroptype upon me.
Let me make it clear for you, in simple terms that will penetrate the hate which closes your mind.
This is what I believe:
Regarding child abuse:
1) People who overpower little girls (or boys) and rape them are evil people.
2) People who want to look at child-porn which shows little girls (or boys) being overpowered and raped and enduring suffering and humiliation, are sick people.
3) Such child-porn has no redeeming qualities, it should be banned, and no one should view it.
4) It is wrong to have sex with little girls (or boys) - not for the reason that it might hurt them, but simply because it is wrong to impose your own sexuality on a person who is not sexually-aware (the same could be said about mentally-retarded people, or unconscious people). They don't understand what's happening, therefore they can't choose it.
Regarding girls:
5) Girls are beautiful in a non-sexual way, at all ages. (You might agree with this. If you are gay, you might think the same about boys.)
6) Girls can be sexy at ages younger than the legal "Age of Consent". (If the legal "Age of Consent" is 18, you just try telling a 17 year old that she is not allowed to be sexy.) Just because the law makes it illegal for anyone to have sex with a girl below the Age of Consent, it does not make it true that girls are not sexually attractive below that age, nor is it true that girls below the "Age of Consent" are not sexually aware (See #7)
Society has reached a position where it misinterprets the law regarding the "Age of Consent", to assume that this law exists because ALL underage girls are not sexually-aware, do not possess a sexuality, and are not sexually attractive; therefore society now believes the lie that any adult who regards an underage girl as being sexy is responding to something which does not exist, that there is something wrong with that adult. The truth is that the girls' allure does exist, and many people can recognise it - how they respond to it and how they behave towards such a girl is what makes the difference between a good and a bad person.
7) Once a girl enters puberty, she naturally begins to develop a sexual awareness. Her sexuality is oppressed by the law for her own sake, to protect her from pregnancy and to deter men from initiating a sexual relationship with her (which could damage her education and affect her emotional development), not because she does not have a sexuality. Obviously, the "Age of Consent" law protects girls who are too young to be sexually-aware, without oppressing any part of their identity; but it is the older girls on the brink of womanhood, who are sexually-aware, that feel oppressed as much as they are protected - but that is for their own good.
8) If a man (or woman) of any age can recognize the beauty and/or sexual attractiveness of an "underage" girl, despite the best efforts of the law to convice society that the girl is not, and can not be, sexually attractive, then that does not make that man (or woman) EVIL or SICK. Evil is as evil does, not as evil thinks or fantasizes. The worst that could be said about them is that they do not believe the same lie as every one else.
Regarding "child-porn", I believe:
9) It is not impossible to create erotic images of "underage" girls in a manner which does not harm them. Evil people make child-porn which inflicts suffering and humiliation on the victim, because they don't care about the girl - she might as well be a dead piece of meat - they care about pleasing themselves at the expense of causing misery to others (Abuse), and they care about making money at the expense of the happiness of others (Exploitation). Abuse (which includes suffering and humiliation) and Exploitation are the two things that cause harm to children in child-pornography, independent of the the motives for the Abuse and Exploitation or the manner in which they occur; being seen as sexy or being observed naked are not always by themselves an abuse which necessarily harms all children - unless the child is not sexually aware, is insecure about their attractiveness, does not understand what they are doing and it's implications, or is forced to do anything.
Somewhere in the world there exist good people, and it is possible that good people could make pictures of "underage" girls which portray the beauty, the sexual attractiveness, and the sexual-awareness of those girls, in a manner which does not abuse or exploit the girls, by caring about the feelings, wishes and welfare of the girls as people, and holding those concerns as more important than their own wishes and more important than making money; by conducting themselves with the utmost respect and in the most professional and considerate manner, by being honest and following a strict code of conduct. (Why do this? See #11 and #15)
10) Somewhere in society there exist "underage" girls who will not feel that they are humiliated or victimized if they are perceived by some as beautiful, sexually attractive and sexually aware, and who are aware that men desire them, and are comfortable with sharing their beauty, sexiness and awareness by posing as photographers' models (even naked).
11) It is a matter of Freedom. Freedom of Speech - Freedom of Expression - Freedom of Belief - Freedom of Thought. These things are to be preserved, even if they represent a thought which is abhorent to the prevailing attitudes of society. Freedom for all people. Not just "normal" ones. The difficulty lies in finding a way to protect the freedom of the least important and least accepted minority in society, without compromizing the security of the freedom of the majority. The majority believe in adult heterosexual relationships bonded by love and sanctified by marriage, and blessed with children. How to protect the Freedom of the Family way of life, while ensuring the freedom of an apparently opposite minority way of life? The governments have a responsibility to all people, and are failing their own people by plotting a course which sees them abusing the freedoms of one minority and fostering a climate of hate and intolerance which allows them to violate that minority.
Banning all underage erotica is like banning all cars just because some irresponsible, antisocial, and selfish people drive illegally, with no regard or respect for the lives of others who cross their paths. Banning persecutes people for their beliefs.
12) Legalizing underage erotica created by responsible artists in a non-abusive and non-exploitative way, consisting of, at the most, clean and tasteful nudity (not depictions of sex-acts or blatant close-up genital displays), in conjunction with harsher punishments for home-made pictures taken by abusers of their crimes and for pictures made by unauthorized and unsupervized artists, would remove control of this billion-dollar industry from criminals (who are often involved in things such as smugling and selling drugs and guns, human trafficking and prostitution).
(Why even consider legalizing it at all, instead of banning outright? See #11 and #15)
If it is possoble to remove Abuse and Exploitation from production of underage erotica, the only remaining reason to ban underage erotica is because of a hatred of the people who view it. This is pedophobia: Fear and lack of understanding of the sexual attractiveness and sexual awareness of "underaged" people, and of adults who recognize, appreciate and understand them (Pedosexuals). It is a form of Latin-Homophobia, the fear of men experienced by women and children, a form of xenophobia programmed by society.
Regarding sexuality, I believe:
13) Absolutely anyone can witness and be affected by the beauty and sexual attractiveness of "underage" girls: all it takes is the correct circumstances to open a person's mind to a new perspective, then it is up to them whether they accept it or fight it. Once they have seen it, they can't forget it, only resist. Anyone has the potential to become a pedosexual, just like anyone has the potential to become a homosexual - given the right social and personal circumstances, which may occur only rarely in one's life. The longer an individual lives their life as a "normal" (orthosexual) or heterosexual, then the more difficult it may be for them to contemplate or accept a new perspective.
The common Pedophobic negative steroptype of a "pedo" is of one who is "not a real man", a "so-called man", this perception stems from Greek-Homophobia, the fear of man's own latent homosexuality in all heterosexual men, and also of their own latent pedosexuality. It is reinforced by the gender-stereotypical view of masculinity perceived by straight men and homosexual men alike, which drives them to develop their musculature, to be "a big man" - straight men do this to prove their manhood and to prove their heterosexuality (if it is to prove that they are NOT gay when they have homosexual tendencies, then it is considered to be homosexual flight), and for gay men it is an attempt to banish the stereotype of homosexuals as effeminate and as lesser men; but also it is to eliminate their own latent pedosexuality by proving that they are attracted to big men, not boylike effeminate males; these fears have settled so deeply on the gay consciousness that the well-developed male physique has become the ideal of the gay-aesthetic even more than it has the heterosexual male aesthetic, to such an extent that many gay men can be considered to be in pedosexual flight.
The two types of Homophobia thus give rise to two types of Pedophobia: women and children fear the alien man whose sexuality does not abide by the rules of family-oriented society, and men fear their own latent homosexuality and latent pedosexuality, ignited by memories of the Latin-Homophobia-inspired Pedophobia they experienced as a child.
14) The law is wrong in failing to recognize attraction to underage girls as a "normal" facet of heterosexuality. Furthermore the law is irresponsible when it considers this attraction to be a mental disorder. The experts and their textbooks are obsolete and promote unjust attitudes that lead to miscarriages of justice on a daily basis, people being punished for something they can not control: one can not control the orientation of one's sexuality, but can only control how it affects their actions and how their actions affect other people.
15) You can never kill pedophilia. The potential for pedosexuality exists in ALL men, along with homosexuality, and always will do. Pedophobia and homophobia are ignorant and dangerous flights from the truth: homosexual flight and pedosexual flight.
It is only possible to remove pedosexuality (or homosexuality) from society by promoting lies, and you can only remove pedophobia or homophobia from society by promoting truth.
My first 4 beliefs you might agree with. If you oppose all my other beliefs, remember the first 4. Remember the similarities between us, not the differences. I don't claim that my opinions are correct. These are just my own personal thoughts and ideas that I discovered while attempting to figure out why some people are the way they are. Maybe I am a pervert, but I am not a parasite or a roach, nor am a child-abuser; and the only darkness around me is that which oppresses my beliefs, a similar darkness to that which all persecuted people feel. Maybe one day you will face a similar darkness, and find yourself in a scenario where you know that you are a good person, despite everything you were ever taught, and all that everyone tells you informing you that you must be a bad person; where no one will listen to you because they have their own definition of who/what you are... or maybe you'll just have a real easy life, because it's nothing if not easy when you belong to the right club/group/master-race.
Maybe every person who does not think the same thoughts as you should be locked up for their beliefs, but that kind of thing has happened before and people were never proud of it afterwards. I think I have always been a good person, but according to you and those whom share your beliefs, I am an insane and sick pervert, a parasite and not a real man; but I know I am still the same good person I always was, and I wonder: what if every person we hear about in the news, every person who is branded "sick", a "pervert", a "parasite", "not a real man", what if they are all good people too? Then what kind of society are we living in?
I don't think I am a coward for stating my beliefs, even if I am the only person on the planet who has these beliefs. If you ever meet me in person and ask me about my beliefs I will tell them to you honestly, if you are speaking to me as one human being to another; if you are a hate-filled psychopath I will probably keep keep my mouth shut, but I call that wisdom not cowardice.
Peace.
2004-12-21 05:32:00 -
I noticed that the last comment anti-iconomach didn't have the balls to give his or her name. Is it because you are ashamed of your views concerning child pornography? I would have to conclude that you must be one of those roaches that love to watch in the dark where no one can see them, but when the light comes on they scury like some perasite that hopes no one notices them lurking in the dark enjoying the suffering and humilation of victims too small to fight back. You are a coward of the worst kind. How challanging it is to over power and rape a little girl? What a big man.
I totally agree with Murray get rid of all pornography maybe these so-called men that need this kind of action will come out of the dark and get a life.
2004-11-01 17:57:53 - anti-iconomach
Sue Watts you are wrong. Evil people will create child porn because that is what they enjoy doing. They do it only for themselves because they are selfish and do not care about the suffering of children, and they like to show off what they have done. They don't do it for the benefit of others. They are not altruistic, they don't do it to satisfy any other person's demand. It is to satisfy themselves at the cost of others. Consumers do not create the demand. The demand is inside the mind of the abuser - and the demand is that of the beast, which decent people do not succumb to. There is no link between supply and demand. Evil abusers are suppling themselves with pleasure. Other evil people might want to view it, but what does a selfish beast care about the wishes of other people?
Murray Robertson, while you are at it, why not make every woman wear the muslim hijab so no man can look upon her? If legal pornography is prohibited, then the new form of porn will not be the graven image, but will become the actual sight of a real female in real life. Then you will have to keep men from looking at females. Pluck out all mens' eyes, or smother all women from head to toe, that is your choice. The realistic answer is not to legislate against any kind of porn, but to regulate the industry - these are real people who are depicted in porn, they are not commodities. Government has the schizophrenic attitude of allowing the industry to run wild, while at the same time condemning it. The medical profession and education are regulated, closely monitored and inspected by governmental departments - the same should be done with the porn industry. A glass of wine, a cup of java, a mild sedative...legal drugs, and useful, and people know better than to abuse them. So it should be with porn. Yes, even "underage" porn - if that's what some people want. Maybe that is just the way their wires are connected; a glass of red wine is not better than white, nor better than a beer or a shot of whiskey. It is wrong to enforce your taste on another person, and wrong to attempt to extinguish theirs; but everyone's taste should be catered for, in a strictly controlled manner.
2004-10-15 03:12:23 - Murray Robertson
The majority of pornography is NOT kiddie-porn. By making kiddie-porn evil we unintentionally legitimise ALL porn. There is evidence that suggests that porn consumers wanting more of a kick move on to kiddie-porn.
Just as in the drug debate we legitimise alcohol and demonise "illegal" drugs thus hiding the fact that most of the damage to society is through alcohol, not through the other drugs.
Let us use this kiddie-porn scare to home in on ALL pornography. We have to realise that while it is convenient to say that there are no victims in the straight porn industry, that is a convenient lie.
Far more homes and lives are destroyed and suffering compounded by non-kiddie porn. Let us get strong governments who legislate against ALL porn. After all, we are already in the process of fighting "legal" tobacco.
2004-10-15 02:55:32 -
Child pornography would not exist without a perpetrator and a victim. We cannot 'sit on the fence' in regards to child sexual abuse. We are either completely against it, or we CONDONE it.
Consumers of child pornography indirectly contribute to the sexual abuse of children, by creating a demand that requires a supply, and therefore contribute to the sexual abuse of children, and the abject lifelong misery it creates for it's victims.
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